The Gaffer

The Big Interview: Red Passion says a big hello to Mr Flynn

Setting: Colliers Park, Gresford. Brian and the boys have just finished training. The training complex is looking particularly brilliant and Brian is loitering around upstairs. He’s been out on the training pitch - but he’s limping. He’s pulled his calf - and he’s out of Saturday’s game (joke). Brian moves behind his desk. The office we’re in is a multi-purpose office. He explains that he’ll put the phone on hold - to stop interruptions - and that lots of people will wander into the office while we’re talking. And he’s right: Kevin Reeves, Joey and lots of official-looking people in tracksuits all pop in post-training, post-shower. Brian says: ‘Fire away! Anything!’. Interestingly he also says: ‘I’m interested in the questions you’re going to ask.’ So, let’s start…

Why do you sit in the stand, and not in the dugout, during games?

‘I think it's funny that people are so worried about where I sit during games. I'm aware also that the issue of where I sit at games is brought up usually when we're not doing so well. The thing is as well that I've sat up in the stand for seven or eight years now; so it's not as if it's something new either. The main reason I sit up in the stand is that it enables me to get an overall picture of a game - from first minute to last, second half as well as first half. When there is something I want to change, or need to change, I can rely on Kev and Joey. Their view on things is usually exactly the same as my own - it's usually 99.9 per cent the same as my own. Upstairs I can see depth and angles much better than I could do if I stood on the touchline. That's very important to me. It can help me think about, and analyse, the game I'm watching - but also future games as well. Watching games from the stand also helps me when it comes to training and when it comes to studying the opposition; it enables me to look back at matches much better and to recreate situations on the training pitch much more accurately. But I've always got Kev and Joey on the touchline as well - so basically I've got the best of both worlds. Every manager has got their own routine, and I've certainly got mine. It suits me and my staff, and that's all there is to it really. I've always done it - for seven or eight years now - and I don't think I'm going to change now. It bemuses me when people say I sit upstairs so I can hide from the fans. I just can't understand that line of thought at all. People say to me things like: You should be in the dugout Brian because it's not fair on Kev and Joey - they take all the stick. That's what I hear. So do people want me to stand on the touchline just so they can hurl abuse at me? Is that the only reason? Anyway, the fact is as well that I do go down to the touchline on occasions. I've actually been in the dugout this season. I won't tell you exactly when, but I have - people just haven't noticed. The thing is as well that when I'm sat in the stand I'm still surrounded by fans there. In a way they're even closer to me there - and I get plenty of advice I can tell you. I am not by nature a ranter and raver. If I went into the dugout it would be an artificial move - I would be doing something for the wrong reasons.’

How do you communicate with the team - from the stand?

‘As regards communication between me in the stand and Kev and Joey in the dugout, the key thing is trust. I trust them implicitly. You've got to remember also that a lot of messages sent onto the pitch probably don't get to the player or players they're intended for. I reckon less than 10 per cent of messages are actually acted upon. Things are too frenetic on the field and you've always got to wait until someone is within earshot. Phil Hardy is often the player who's nearest the touchline. He passes them on, but you can never be sure that they reach who they're meant for. Sometimes we might want a certain player to just sit in a position - it might take a good 20 seconds for that message to be relayed. So, inadvertently, things don't work perfectly anyway. But as regards general tactics and substitutions, we make a lot of decisions prior to the game. These are emphasised and reiterated on the Saturday by staff. So, in this sense Kev and Joey know what the tactics are. I instruct them, and if they have to make independent, spontaneous decisions during games they have my complete backing and blessing - 110 per cent. But as I say many decisions are made prior to games, and we go with these decisions during the 90 minutes. A lot of substitions anyway are just common sense. We usually have a defender, a midfielder and a forward on the bench and if there's an injury or something it's usually a case of a simple swap - a defender for a defender, a midfielder for a midfielder, a forward for a forward. Sometimes though I need to get messages down to the bench. And let's just say there is a way I can do this. It's not a telephone either.’

Many fans are irritated by the fact that you still live in Burnley. Can you understand this?

‘Let's just say this. If I lived in Wrexham I wouldn't suddenly become a better manager and I wouldn't put more hours in. There was a point though in my second year when I put my house in Burnley on the market. It was when I was on my first contract and for a 12-month period I was actively seeking to buy a house in the Wrexham area. But I was very aware of the perils of being a football manager - the instability and so on - and I just decided not to move at that particular moment. I've lived in Burnley for 25 years, my wife's family are from that area, and it's just not an issue for me. In addition, it's a fact that a lot of managers don't live in the town where they work. I won't name names, but there's a long list. The question of where I live might be a big issue for some people and they're obviously entitled to feel that way. I can't change that. The fact is though that I've chosen to live in Burnley. You've also got to remember that I spend a lot of time in Wrexham anyway. This coming week, for example, I'll be spending more than half the week in Wrexham: there's a Tuesday game so I'll stop over Tuesday, there's a Reserve game on the Wednesday, a function on the Thursday and then it's Friday and a game on the Saturday. I'll go back to see my wife after the game on Saturday. So the fact is I do spend a lot of time in Wrexham anyway - even though I don't live permanently in the town. I suppose in some senses it could be an advantage to live outside Wrexham, but that's not something I really think about at all.’

Carl Griffiths: Can you explain why Wrexham couldn’t up their bid to get him?

‘Carl obviously had a good record for us - four goals in five games - but there was a significant financial problem. We wanted to pay for Carl in the same way that Orient had paid Peterborough for him. But Orient weren't having any of this and the deal was dead. I would have liked to have signed Carl - and Carl knew that - but there was this serious obstacle. As it was I didn't even get down to talking terms with Carl. But I had done a lot of background research about Carl, about how he'd performed at other clubs, and I knew as well that he was a player who performed very well in short bursts, so perhaps he wasn't the goal machine that some people thought he would have been. I wasn't totally surprised when I found out he'd gone to Port Vale. Carl's agent had been angling for a transfer for a while and you've got to remember as well that Brian Horton bought him while he was at Man City - so he obviously likes the look of him. Port Vale obviously agreed to the financial package that Orient wanted.’

Who’s your closest confidante: Kevin or Joey?

‘Kev and Joey have an equal input - I don't rely on one of them more than the other. It's a team, and the three of us discuss, and cover, everything. Sometimes we may be discussing selection. If Kev and Joey want one man, and I want another, I'll back down. If I'm outvoted that's fine. It's a team decision. But whatever decision is made, it's got to be justified. I've never gone against a decision that Kev and Joey have made and I've never overruled them. You've got to remember though that the three of us know each other well and, on the whole, we share the same principles and the same beliefs. So we usually agree on things anyway. Obviously we have different specialist areas. Joey has specific ideas about defending and defenders, Kev's the same with strikers and, as a former midfielder myself, I can see the good and bad things in midfielders.’

How did you get to know Kevin?

‘I played with Kev at Burnley. I met him there. He's got the kind of personality that means when you meet him for the first time you instantly like him and you want to know him more. He was a good player and when we both went to work for the PFA I realised he was a very good coach as well.’

What about Joey?

‘As you know I was a player at Wrexham for a couple of years and I remember that in the summer of 1989 me and Joey went on a coaching trip to Canada. We roomed together on that trip and I remember we got chatting about what we both wanted to do when our playing careers ended. I said I'd like to have a crack at management and I recall Joey saying he'd like to go on to the coaching side. I remember thinking that if the Wrexham job came up, or any job for that matter, we'd apply as a team - a team that would obviously include Kev as well. That was the plan.’

And what happened?

‘When I got the manager's job at Wrexham, the plan was put into action. The only problem was Joey. He doesn't like titles and he needed some persuading to take on the title of coach!’

What are the strengths of Kev and Joey?

‘Kev and Joey are both outstanding coaches. They know the game inside out. They're enthusiastic, hardworking and honest people. You've got to remember as well that when Joey and me were running the Wales Under-21 side Kev ran the club when we were away. But on the whole Kev's happy being a No.2 and I'm happy being a No.1.’

Would you agree that the club is top-heavy?

‘No. The club isn't top-heavy - it's as simple as that. Myself, Joey and Kev look after the first team; Joey and Ian, as player-coach, work with the Reserves. That kind of arrangement is quite normal - we're not top-heavy at all, definitely not. In addition we've got Brian Prandle and Steve Weaver who come under a different umbrella. They look after the Under-21s as part of the Centre of Excellence. That's separately funded and comes under the banner of Howard Wilkinson's Charter for Quality. Remember as well Wrexham as a club has no chief scout. Most other clubs have chief scouts, but not us. We tend to share out the scouting, but I organise and control it. When we were looking to sign Clayton Ince the work permit people asked us for some evidence - to prove that we were actively looking for keepers. They asked us to look at an average month and add up how many scouting trips we'd been on. Do you know what that figure was? 64! In one month the club had had representatives at 64 different games - and those were games at all levels.’

Where are you looking for players?

‘We look for players at all levels. But obviously we put a heavy emphasis on Reserve team football - particularly the Reserve sides of Premiership teams. We watch League of Wales and we're aware of the better players. Obviously we became interested in Eifion Williams and Paul Roberts when they were scoring for fun at Caernarfon and Porthmadoc respectively. The reports we got told us that Paul just had a little more than Eifion - but as it happened Paul's stay at the Racecourse didn't work out. Paul played three Reserve games with us and for a time we thought he could make it. But fairplay to Eifion. He went to several clubs on trial; he got his move eventually to Torquay and he's started very well. As regards transfer activity, I’m always making calls to other managers, and other managers are always calling me. You never know what might happen in the transfer market. People have very different views and anything can happen. Look at Geoff Horsfield. Over the two Halifax-Wrexham games he did one thing - and suddenly he gets snapped up by Fulham for £300,000. Amazing - and he’s now got 20-odd goals. That’s how things can happen; he just got an opportunity and seized it.’

How would you characterise your transfer policy?

‘Well, for a period we used to concentrate heavily on the Vauxhall Conference - and the best players in that league. But transfer fees were getting a bit out of hand even at that level and I remember the example of Kim Casey in particular. He was at Kidderminster and he used to score goals regularly for them. We had a look at him and we tried to get him. He was an accountant though, as well as playing for Kidderminster, and it would have been very difficult for Wrexham to make it worth his while to move full-time. He was on very good money as a part-time footballer and a part-time accountant, and we would have had to pay him much more than our top earner to get him - maybe three times as much. So, we changed policy really and started focusing more and more on players playing in Premiership and First Division reserve sides - and on trying to attract the best players in our own division. Look at this big file here: it covers our last four months’ scouting - players, teamsheets, information, everything.’

And what’s that red file over there?

‘That contains our priority list.’

And who does the scouting?

‘All of us - me, Kev, Joey and others. In one week our scouting system covers loads of games. Look in the week beginning 8 March we were represented at games at Rochdale, Worcester, Everton, Hednesford, Aston Villa, Tranmere, Bristol Rovers, Burnley, Birmingham, Notts Forest, and at other places. We had people at all those places. I enjoy the evenings when I’m out looking for players. In a typical week we might have 19 or 20 matches covered - so our system is extensive.’

Why do you fall out with players so often?

‘I don’t fall out with players. I have no arguments with players. I might have disagreements with the odd one, but I’m not one for arguments. For example, I’ve never said to anyone: you’ll never kick another ball for Wrexham Football Club. But the fact is every club is going to have a turnover in players. I never had an argument with Steve Watkin; I never had an argument with Gary Bennett; I never had an argument with Bryan Hughes. With Marriott there was a problem about a letter. But I’m honest and respectful in all my dealings with players.’

Rush?

‘On the playing side it hasn’t worked out but to be honest his injuries haven’t helped things. But in terms of our profile and image, he’s stepped us up a lot. He’s also passed his first coaching badge. It’s great though to see the players talking to him - learning from him all the time. He’s a legend in world football and he’s obviously going to have an influence.’

Can you be more specific?

‘It’s difficult. Let’s just say everybody’s learnt something from him. His attitude, his personality, his character and his professionalism - they’ve all helped. And the great thing is this. If he wanted to, he could act like a superstar, but he’s just one of the lads.’

What about next year?

‘I’d like him to stay here in a coaching capacity. It’s obviously early days, and he’ll probably have other offers, but it would be a big boost if he stayed. When he came here he had offers from the US, Japan and Europe and he chose us - which was brilliant. I’d like him as a full-time coach and as regards playing, it really depends on how he feels.’

What do you say to people who view the training ground as a luxury?

‘When I first took over we sold Stansty as a cost-cutting measure and every Wrexham fan said this was the worst thing we ever did. They said: It’s scandalous. You’ve got to have a training ground, you’ve got to have decent facilities. And yet, we build a brilliant facility and we still get complaints! I personally know the importance of good training facilities - and we’ve worked towards this goal. A lot of people have worked very hard to get us to where we are now and supporters of the club should be proud of what we’ve achieved. It’s not a luxury. You’ve got to remember that this facility is used every day of the week. Look at that noticeboard over there: there are lists there of Under-9s and Under-16s groups - who are all part of our School of Excellence. So it’s not just the first team who use Colliers Park. It’s used from 8.30am to 8.00pm every day - so it’s got to be value for money.’

What about the protests of the Gresford residents?

‘I think the local residents are under the false impression that the club is suddenly going to move from the Racecourse Ground to Gresford. We’re not going to move; all we’ve got here are training facilities. Why should the club move anyway? We’ve just invested in a 3,500-seater stand and a 125-year lease for the Racecourse. In 120 years time you could understand local residents having fears - but not now. In addition there’s no such word as ‘competitive’ in planning law. So we’ll be able to keep on playing games here. I’ve got a feeling that the protests might keep smouldering, but we certainly don’t want to fall out with the local residents.’

Are you ambitious to manage Wales?

‘Yes, in years to come I’d love to. A few years ago the Welsh FA approached my chairman and asked to speak to me. The WFA was considering an interim part-time appointment, but in the end they decided on a full-time appointment. I didn’t want to leave Wrexham - but in the future I think my ultimate ambition will be to manage Wales full-time.’

Bobby Gould?

‘I think it’s difficult for him at the moment. As a fellow manager I sympathise with the problems he faces. He never seems to have a strong, together and stable squad. He’s always got suspensions and, unlike in club football, you can’t just go out and buy a player.’

What about your stint as Wales Under-21 boss?

‘I was saddened by what happened. It was a labour of love and one that I fully enjoyed. I was getting European experience and I was dealing with high-quality Under-21 players all the time. I did the job for 18 months and I had no problems really. Previous to that I’d worked with Jimmy Shoulder for 12 months as well - so I’d spent two and a half years working with Wales when I was told I was no longer required. The manner in which the whole thing was done wasn’t the best - but it doesn’t irk me still.’

Who do you feel have been your best signings as Wrexham boss?

‘Tony Humes from Ipswich. He’s a model professional, a perfect club captain and a born winner on the pitch. As soon as he came to Wrexham I felt he was captaincy material - he’s definitely a leader of men on the pitch. I would have liked to have got my hands on him when he was younger actually. You’ve got to remember as well that we were in the Fourth Division, and Ipswich in the top flight, when we attracted him here. He was 25 then and I persuaded him to drop down three leagues.’

How did you persuade him?
’Gently.’

What about other signings - from non-league football, say?

‘Karl, obviously.’

What’s the story there?

‘I didn’t actually see him myself. I got a phone call from a scout in Runcorn who was also a part-time referee. He phoned me on the Monday and said that he thought he had a player for me. I asked him to fill me in on his background. He said the player was called Karl Connolly and he was 19. Karl was playing in the Merseyside Business League at the time. I asked the scout what was his best position and he just said Karl could play anywhere, in any position. I also asked if this bloke Connolly was being lined up by another club and the scout said he didn’t think so. So we put him in our Reserve side. He got a short-term, three-month side and he obviously looked the part quite early on.’’

And the rest is history?
’Yes.’

What about Karl this season?

‘He’s not been on his best form - up and down definitely.’

What do you see as his main attributes?

‘His first touch is excellent. He’s also got great body strength for a guy who’s not tremendously big. He’s not knocked off the ball easily and he’s also got a lot of composure. One problem we’ve had this season is that he’s not had a regular striking partner. And I think I know what you’re next question’s going to be…’

Yes, what do you feel is his best position: upfront or out wide on the left?

‘Well, Karl prefers to play as a main central striker - he prefers that. I know the fans love him out wide, but it’s important to me that he’s been our top goalscorer in each of the last two years. That’s vital to me.’

Any other favourite signings?

‘I’ve got to mention Benno. He was a free transfer, but just sit back and look at the figures. He got 127 goals in three seasons and we sold him on for £300,000. And, obviously, he left the club with our best wishes - he got a great move. He was the worst professional and worst trainer I’ve ever worked with, but for 90 minutes every week he was brilliant.’